First Corinthians 12:12-31
A couple of things strike me here.
The unity of the body cannot be overestimated. And we all play a part in it. If one part refuses to participate, everyone suffers. If one part is sick or broken, we all suffer. If one part is successful, we all succeed. We see how this plays out on a local basis. How do you think this works for the universal body of Christ?
And what about the parts of the body that do not get the glory, or need more protection? How does that apply to the church?
And what does Paul mean "by the greater gifts?" It sure seems to tough to keep everyone unified and happy if we are calling some gifts greater and some lesser. I'm sure he has a good reason, and we will get into it further in 1 Cor 14. For now, what do you think are the "greater gifts?"
The unity of the body cannot be overestimated. And we all play a part in it. If one part refuses to participate, everyone suffers. If one part is sick or broken, we all suffer. If one part is successful, we all succeed. We see how this plays out on a local basis. How do you think this works for the universal body of Christ?
And what about the parts of the body that do not get the glory, or need more protection? How does that apply to the church?
And what does Paul mean "by the greater gifts?" It sure seems to tough to keep everyone unified and happy if we are calling some gifts greater and some lesser. I'm sure he has a good reason, and we will get into it further in 1 Cor 14. For now, what do you think are the "greater gifts?"
Labels: First Corinthians
13 Comments:
Randy,
I see at least four ways (but there are probably more)to begin a philosophy of the hierarchy of Spiritual gifts.
1) The greater gift is the gift in most need now.
2) The greater gift is the gift which glorifies God the most _____ _________.(fill in the blank with-- completely-- frequently--assuredly through the following generations-- or drop it if deemed best)
3)It MUST be that Paul listed them in the order of their greatness.
4)Gifting is always greater when some gift other than ours is being used to glorify God--otherwise known to cows as 'the grass is always greener on the other side'.
a followup to remember is to ask believing and you shall recieve!
RFR
An answerer to your question of how does the body suffer in a universal since is the Christ is the head. As a body our job is to lift Christ and exalt him thus he is exalted, his suffering was because our sin. This is how the body is affected universally.
The body is to lift each part up, as one is lifted all is lifted. Christ said that “as we do to the least of these we do to him” thus as I said earlier, Christ is to receive the Glory, he is lifted we are lifted.
Hopefully not cheating, I feel that that the greater gifts are those that further the Kingdome of God. But, by definition a gift is something that furthers the Kingdome of God. Maybe Robert was right the greater gift is the one most needed and that is always changing.
But, just to stir the waters
1. is there a closed list of gifts?
2. is there a difference between a gift and talent if the talent is used for work of the Lord?
Kyle
Sometimes we need to remember the way Christ was glorified--by being 'raised up'.
It might be that for the universal Church to succed is needed that anyone with God's love in their heart to do what God has suggested they do in the place He wants it done at the time He need it be done. That accomplished then the spirit of those around are more likely to respond positively to the influence of the Holy Spirit.
So if we give it up and thereby gain it, what is it God wants the body of Christ to do in the pre kingdom world? Could it be to sacrifice at just the right time, in just the right way, and at the right place.
I am never right three times in a row-o woe is me feeble man that I am. If not for the righteousness of God I am lost.
rfr
Perhaps Paul has given us a glimpse of his priorities in his list. I don't think the list is exhaustive, see Eph 4 and Rom 12. He certainly lists the first three gifts in order of authority within the church itself. However, check Rom 14:1-5 as Paul explains further his heirarchy of spiritual gifts. I will give my opinions later.
Even though Paul rates the gift, I like Robefre's point: the gift most relevant and useful to me is the one he gives me to exercise.
In addition, since we are not complete without the other members of the body, I need the others gifts that are being exercised as well--whether encouragement, giving, hospitatily, prophecy, etc. So, every gift is needed by every believer, and God is glorified by all.
Rom 14 further explains how Paul sees the gifts glorifying God.
KYLE ASKS:
Is there a difference between a gift and a talent?
I say "absolutely"! Spiritual gifts are given by the Spirit. He may use a natural gift or learned skill. Ultimately, he equips us for unique work in the body, and it has nothing to do with our natural abilities. I have met many school teachers who do not need to be teacing discipleship classes. I have met many skilled business leaders who serve behind the scenes at church functions. I have met shy, nervous people who prophecy and teach with authority when equipped by the Spirit.
This is not to downplay are abilities. However, Spiritual Gifts are spirit-enhanced, and often appear within the context of the Body of Christ. I don't think Christians can use these gifts outside of the context of the church or the body. Even an evangelist can only use his gift to sell Jesus, not cars.
I would go so far as to suggest that many Christians like to exercise the normal, human abilities without considering if God has something more spiritual and faith-filled for them to do.
Randy,
I think I am sure I have read in the Bible the gifting by the Holy Spirit pursuant to the salvation and infilling of the Holy Spirit experience, but I am not sure how to word it in the search machines of the online Bibles to which I have access. Can you enlighten me?
RFR
I might need some help with your wording--what exactly do you mean by "gifting of the Holy Spirit pursuant of salvation and infilling . . ."
My suggestion would be to start with a full scripture search of the term Holy Spirit or Spirit of God or just Spirit and see what comes up.
Randy,
you said, "Spiritual gifts are given by the Spirit." And I was asking earlier if the Spirit gives the gift, is there a timing and duration? And now I wonder if God breathed the Spirit of Life into our progenitor did that Spirit not give us our talent. So I was trying to understand better the difference between gift and talent.
RFR
Randy,
I am not trying to be rhetorical.
RFR
Hmmmmm . . .
Gift and talent. To me, talents are physical abilities that are derived from our genetic make up or physical training. Any individual, Christian or not, has talents of this nature. It is a gift of the Creator, and we are meant to use them within the larger world community for the benefit of mankind, the administration of our world, and the benefit of self and family.
To me, a Spiritual gift is 1) given at the discretion of the Holy Spirit, 2) to believers in Jesus Christ, 3) for the beneift of the Body of Christ, 4) to be used in the context of the Kingdom of God. Spiritual gifts and physical talents are not mutually exclusive. However, the function is different, and the Holy Spirit can enhance a physical ability for the spiritual edification of the Body of Christ.
So, I see a qualitative (spiritual) difference between the gifts and talents.
Randy
I try to agree that the spiritual gifts to which Paul refers are given by the Holy Spirit, but then I look out and see there in the World people who can discern spirits, but use those talents for sinful reasons rather than Kingdom building reasons. We could almost go down a list of antonums of the gifts that have been listed and see that some-probably and at least hopefully not Christians exhibit gifts similar in utility but opposite in direction. Some of the people exhibiting these anti-gifts would be people on the faceade we think of as good maybe even Christian folks, others would obviously be professing the atheists anthem, and some would seem to be purely ignorant of our Christian system and Christology as well as unlearned concerning Christ himself.
So without direct Biblical sourcing as to the origin of the gifts I find easy to think that people are born with innate qualities we term human, athletic, musical etc. but if we are left to ourselves we twist them into tools for power mongering and self aggramndizement rather than allowing the Spirit to guide us in our use and application of those gifts whereby His power is allowed to waft through us, and abide in us and those gifts as He needs or deems become tools other people think of as ours, so we are inclined by humility to truthfully say they are God's
Your logic is sound. Biblically speaking, though, I am left with the conclusion that spiritual gifts are given within a specific time and purpose. They can be compared with physical gifting, and may even use physical or natural aspects of our humanity. However, they are fundamentally different because of their origin and purpose. I also think that if we attempt to function apart from the purpose of spiritual gifts, then the gifting itself is null and void, and we are simply acting with our natural abilities. This does not mean God cannot use us, but I think we are more effective when we surrender completely to God's gifting and allow the Spirit of Grace to work through us as he sses fit.
Again, a talented school teacher may actually be gifted in another area of the church (like faith or giving or hospitality), and may actually be a miserable teacher for the Body. That is up the Spirit to decide, not the individual.
what he said!
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